Legislature(2011 - 2012)HOUSE FINANCE 519
04/10/2012 01:30 PM House FINANCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB286 | |
| SB140 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | SB 140 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 286 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE
April 10, 2012
2:13 p.m.
2:13:22 PM
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair Stoltze called the House Finance Committee meeting
to order at 2:13 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Bill Stoltze, Co-Chair
Representative Bill Thomas Jr., Co-Chair
Representative Anna Fairclough, Vice-Chair
Representative Mia Costello
Representative Mike Doogan
Representative Bryce Edgmon
Representative Les Gara
Representative David Guttenberg
Representative Reggie Joule
Representative Mark Neuman
Representative Tammie Wilson
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
ALSO PRESENT
James Armstrong, Staff, Representative Bill Stoltze;
Christine Marasigan, Staff, Senator Kevin Meyer.
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE
Orin Dym, State Crime Lab, Department of Public Safety;
Rodney Dial, Lieutenant, State Troopers, Ketchikan; Michael
Cooper, Deputy State Epidemiologist, Department of Health
and Social Services.
SUMMARY
HB 286 G.O. BONDS FOR PORTS
CSHB 286 (FIN) was REPORTED out of committee with
a "do pass" recommendation and with a new fiscal
note from the Department of Revenue.
CSSB 140(JUD)
CATHINONE BATH SALTS
CSSB 140(JUD) was HEARD and HELD in committee for
further consideration.
HOUSE BILL NO. 286
"An Act providing for and relating to the issuance of
general obligation bonds for the purpose of paying the
cost of municipal port projects; and providing for an
effective date."
Vice-chair Fairclough MOVED to ADOPT proposed committee
substitute for HB 286(FIN), Work Draft 27-GH2769\I,
(Krisch, 4/10/12) as a working document.
Co-Chair Stoltze OBJECTED for purpose of discussion.
JAMES ARMSTRONG, STAFF, CO-CHAIR STOLTZE explained the
changes in the committee substitute. In Section 4, the
Haines Maintenance Station replacement for $3 million was
removed. The $3 million was added to Section 3, page 2,
line 18, for the Haines Borough Harbor Upgrade making it
now $15 million. There were technical changes made on page
3, lines 15-16, that now lists projects as construction,
not reconstruction.
Co-Chair Stoltze WITHDREW his objection. There being NO
OBJECTION it was so ordered.
Vice-chair Fairclough explained the new fiscal note from
the Department of Revenue, OMB Component Number 121,
4/6/12. She listed the FY 13 through FY 18 appropriation
request and out-year cost estimates.
Vice-chair Fairclough MOVED to report CSHB 286(FIN) out of
committee with individual recommendations and the
accompanying fiscal note. There being NO OBJECTION, it was
so ordered.
CSHB 286 (FIN) was REPORTED out of committee with a "do
pass" recommendation and with a new fiscal note from the
Department of Revenue.
2:17:09 PM
AT EASE
2:19:18 PM
RECONVENED
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 140(JUD)
"An Act classifying certain substances as schedule IIA
controlled substances and providing penalties relating
to those substances; and providing for an effective
date."
Vice-chair Fairclough MOVED to ADOPT proposed committee
substitute for CSSB 140(JUD), Work Draft 27-LS1032\I, as a
working document. There being NO OBJECTION it was so
ordered.
CHRISTINE MARASIGAN, STAFF, SENATOR KEVIN MEYER presented
the bill that classifies certain synthetic cathinones as a
controlled substance. The drug has been on the market as
"bath salts" and "plant food," but the drug is neither. The
drug is a synthetic cocaine that people are using as a
substitute for methamphetamines or ecstasy. Ms. Marasigan
noted that the sponsor's concern was that the drug is
marketed toward young people with names such as "Vanilla
Sky," Ivory Snow," "Bliss," and "Meow-Meow." People who use
the drug can experience palpitations, seizures, vomiting,
paranoia, blurred-vision, agitation and sometimes death.
The U. S. Drug Enforcement Administration added the drug as
a Schedule One. The Anchorage municipality passed an
ordinance in November, 2011, prohibiting the drug. The Mat-
Su Borough adopted a resolution supporting Senate Bill 140
and the U.S. military has also banned use of the drug.
Co-Chair Stoltze questioned why the Mat-Su Borough adopted
the resolution. Ms. Marasigan explained that the Mat-Su
Borough believed the drug to be a problem in that area.
Ms. Marasigan continued that the intent of the legislation
was to keep dangerous unregulated drugs out of the hands of
children and give public safety officials the tools needed
to punish those selling to the young people.
Co-Chair Stoltze OPENED public testimony.
ORIN DYM, STATE CRIME LAB, DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY (via
teleconference) supported the bill.
Representative Gara asked if there was any way to rank the
drug in order of its danger to determine how to charge the
crimes under the bill. Mr. Dym related that the drug most
resembles methamphetamines and ecstasy.
2:25:15 PM
Representative Guttenberg asked who Mr. Dym represented.
Co-Chair Stoltze informed that Mr. Dym was with the State
Crime Lab in the Department of Public Safety.
Representative Guttenberg noted that there had been other
legislation on cocaine and other drugs and felt they were
constantly chasing a chemical name. A chemical is changed
and it becomes a different drug and new ever increasing
legislation is brought forth to cover the new drug. He
wondered if there was some way to deal with it as a larger
class of drugs instead of each individual drug.
Mr. Dym understood the goal, but the bill does what it can
to best of the ability to just concentrate on the new drug.
It is difficult to write a bill for all the unknown drugs.
RODNEY DIAL, LIEUTENANT, STATE TROOPERS, KETCHIKAN (via
teleconference) noted that the department supports the
bill. He notified that more "bath salts" cases are being
experienced around the state, specifically in the Mat-Su
area. People on the drugs are very unpredictable and
situations can get tense with law enforcement. A number of
people brought have been brought into hospitals with
effects from the drug. The drug is a public health hazard
and law enforcement concern.
Co-Chair Stoltze pointed out that bills will be going out
frequently as new drugs appear and people find new ways to
market dangerous drugs to young people. He asked Lt. Dial
if it had been his experience that there were every
increasing new ways to sell and profit from drug selling.
Lt. Dial agreed. He noted that on websites the drug can be
found under other names, such as "fish food" or "plant
food." The website may say it is not for human consumption,
but then there will be testimony on the site from people
who have used the drug. There has not been a lot of medical
research on the drug, but there may be long range danger
for people who use the drug. He warned that the drug is
extremely unpredictable and dangerous to public safety
officers in the field.
Co-Chair Stoltze expressed that some supporters of the bill
have been ridiculed for wasting time on something called
"bath salts." He intended to stand firm to keep the drug
out of the hands of children no matter what it is called.
2:31:22 PM
Representative Gara asked why the drug was named "bath
salts." He wanted to make sure nothing was being regulated
other than the hard drug known as "bath salts." Mr. Dial
replied that was correct. He added that if the drug were
truly to be used for baths, it would be an extremely
expensive bath.
Representative Guttenberg asked if the primary place of
purchase was the internet. Mr. Dial acknowledged the
internet was the prime purchasing location if someone lived
in a community without a local distributor. There are some
local distributors in Juneau, Mat-Su, and Soldotna. Most
packages are 200 to 500 milligrams that sell for $25 to $45
dollars.
2:33:29 PM
MICHAEL COOPER, DEPUTY STATE EPIDEMIOLOGIST, DEPARTMENT OF
HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES (via teleconference) indicated
he was available to answer questions. He was familiar with
the drug through research. As a doctor he had not dealt
with anyone first hand on the drug, but colleagues have
mentioned their experiences with emergency room patients on
the drug. "Bath salts" are definitely in Alaska. The worst
problem is the drug is not regulated so the user does not
know what they are really getting. Individuals in internet
forums talk about their experiences, but the person getting
the drugs may have a different experience with a different
form of the drug. The effects can be very severe.
Co-Chair Stoltze asked if it was a good policy to regulate
and criminalize the drug. Dr. Cooper indicated that he did
not know the official department opinion toward the bill,
but he did testify to the serious nature of the drug. He
believed the drug to be very dangerous. A major problem is
that the drug has flashy packaging with cute names and it
is very easy to acquire. It is worse than some of the other
drugs like spice or marijuana. One of the worst
consequences of the drug is the unpredictability. The doses
are not well established so someone might use 50 milligrams
and then progress to continually higher amounts.
Vice-chair Fairclough remarked that the bill sets the limit
at 500 milligrams. Previous testimony reported that the
drug can be sold in 250 milligram amounts. She questioned
if 250 milligrams was a better number to set than 500
milligrams.
Representative Doogan agreed with Vice-chair Fairclough. He
noted that it was hard to determine how much would harm
each user. He had no problem moving the bill, but would be
in favor of changing the bill to just outlaw the drug
completely.
Ms. Marasigan answered that there had been a lot of
discussion in Judiciary Committee. The intent of the bill
was to go after the people marketing and selling the drugs,
not those who might possess a small amount. They did not
want to create a whole new group of felons. It had been
stated that 200 to 500 milligrams was a dose, which is
about the size of two packets of sugar. The 500 milligram
threshold was set for the seller rather than prosecuting
the casual user.
Co-Chair Stoltze asked after consulting with law
enforcement what was the level chosen when introducing the
bill. Ms. Marasigan replied that the level was set at 500
milligrams.
2:39:04 PM
Representative Gara agreed that the penalty should be
higher for seller. He asked if a young person has two doses
of the drug would that be considered a misdemeanor. Ms.
Marasigan replied that anything up to 500 milligrams would
be a misdemeanor. Representative Gara asked how many doses
is 500 milligrams. Ms. Marasigan replied that between 200
milligrams to 500 milligrams was a dose.
Vice-chair Fairclough asked if there was a lot of online
purchasing. Ms. Marasigan nodded. Vice-chair Fairclough
questioned if there was some reason that it had not been
made illegal to ship by mail into Alaska. Ms. Marasigan
deferred the question the Department of Public Safety.
Lt. Dial emphasized that online retailers were very aware
of which states had made it illegal to sell the product and
in which states it was still legal. He indicated that
dosages on the site were selling from to 200 milligrams to
500 milligrams.
Vice-chair Fairclough wondered if it was illegal to mail
the drug anywhere. She questioned if substances are being
purchased online, could it be possible to make a law to
stop them at the post office. She believed that should be
considered. She added that if there was an illegal dose
maximum, then dealers would just package the drug into
smaller doses to get around the law.
Lt. Dial indicated that he did not believe there was any
purpose to bring it into the Federal Analog Act that bands
some substances from going to certain places. Illegal
substances under federal law make it a crime to mail those
substances within the country. He believed the retailers of
"bath salts" were trying to stay one step ahead of the law.
He noted that on some websites selling "bath salts" the law
in different states was listed. If you live in a state
where the drug has been made illegal, the online site will
not send it to you.
Vice-chair Fairclough offered that different communities
across Alaska have banned certain substances. She
acknowledged the state cannot do anything about the federal
post office as far as writing laws, but the state could
make it illegal to bring the drug into the state. She
indicated she would not stop the bill.
2:44:51 PM
Representative Doogan agreed with Vice-chair Fairclough. He
believed if the drug was harmful, then he would be in favor
of changing bill to ban the drug completely.
Representative Gara reiterated that it was not clear if a
person buys more than one dose would that become a felony.
He asked about the size of the packets being sold now.
Ms. Marasigan signified that doses come in brightly colored
packets with the contents at 100, 200, or 500 milligrams.
She signified that 500 milligrams was believed to be a lot.
The intent of the sponsor was if a young person had in
their possession only 200 milligrams, the bill did not want
to create felons out of them. The penalty was set for those
selling the drugs. The sponsor's contention was if someone
had over 500 milligrams then they probably intended to
distribute and sell.
Co-Chair Stoltze stressed that the bill has already been
through compromises in other committees and he would not
liberalize it any further.
2:48:32 PM
Vice-chair Fairclough commented that when setting a bar
above zero on a substance that can kill people. There is
often an expectation in the young that they are not going
to get hurt by a product when the state sets the acceptable
level. She did not want to kill the bill, but she was
uncomfortable about giving the public an acceptable amount.
She added that children were at risk with the drug.
Co-Chair Stoltze CLOSED public testimony.
CSSB 140(JUD) was HEARD and HELD in committee for further
consideration.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 2:50 PM.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HB286 CS WORKDRAFT 27-GH2769-I 4.10.12.pdf |
HFIN 4/10/2012 1:30:00 PM |
HB 286 |